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Looking for battlemap software
Hi guys,
I am a pretty serious dungeon master for Pathfinder. I have been playing RPGs on pen and paper for more then a decade and really enjoy them, but I am to the point now that I seriously need to make better battle maps. I have been patiently waiting for Dundjinni to get their shit back on line but seeing as its been more than a year since that they went down, I am not waiting any longer. My question is this. I am not a graphic artist in the least, in fact I pretty well suck at making images in general. I would like to make nice detailed battle maps for my players as they put alot of work into the game and it adds a really nice feel.
Will this software be up to the task? All I have seen is one battlemap example. Is there enough support around to do well laid out maps for use with my d20 pro software? Someone please let me know. I am starting a new campaign and really want to make this look good.
Best,
Paul
I am a pretty serious dungeon master for Pathfinder. I have been playing RPGs on pen and paper for more then a decade and really enjoy them, but I am to the point now that I seriously need to make better battle maps. I have been patiently waiting for Dundjinni to get their shit back on line but seeing as its been more than a year since that they went down, I am not waiting any longer. My question is this. I am not a graphic artist in the least, in fact I pretty well suck at making images in general. I would like to make nice detailed battle maps for my players as they put alot of work into the game and it adds a really nice feel.
Will this software be up to the task? All I have seen is one battlemap example. Is there enough support around to do well laid out maps for use with my d20 pro software? Someone please let me know. I am starting a new campaign and really want to make this look good.
Best,
Paul
Comments
Paul
I don't work with d20Pro. I did take a quick look at the website earlier, and if my vague recollection is correct, d20Pro can use JPGs and PNGs.
In that case, as I understand your answer, Fractal Mapper 8 should be able to do everything you want with ease.
Best,
Paul
I've worked with Fractal Mapper 8, Dundjinni (TM) and Campaign Cartographer (TM) 3. My choice and my own recommendation is FM8. The floor plan above (which will be part of a map of the week release in a week or two) gives a quick sampling of what you can do in terms of what you're seeking. The depth may not be enough for you, and you might want to put dark areas into something like this. You can take care of the depth by adding stronger shadows and/or shading in FM8. Overlays will give you dark areas. Feathers and blurs will enhance them. All are very easy to do in FM8.
Before we continue, let's make comparisons:
Dundjinni would be almost as good in your case, but it won't let you add shadows as FM8 does. It sounds like this could with time become an important tool for you. However, all of this is academic, because Dundjinni has been off the shelves for the better part of a year, and it's doubtful that it will return. You doubtless can find a copy somewhere, but you can't register online anymore. In addition, the current and last Version 1.07 is from the Year 2004. It hasn't been updated since then.
Campaign Cartrographer can do most things that FM8 can (and a few that FM8 can't). However, it has a learning curve that could compete with Mt. Everest, and users constantly have problems with the program. If you doubt that, look at the FM8 forum and see how often problems are reported. Then look at the CC3 forums at:
http://www.profantasy.com
Make up your own mind what's more reliable.
Another point important to you needs to be discussed:
These interior details are made with fill patterns and symbols in FM8 (called textures and objects in Dundjinii). None of the three programs will give you collections of symbols and fill patterns that will serve your needs for long. The Dundjinni commercial art packs no longer are available, so there's no point discussing them. CC3 delivers a considerably larger symbol package than FM8, and you can buy additional symbol collections from ProFantasy which also will install automatically in FM8, if you have it. However, with FM8 that's an unnecessary expense, as we soon shall see.
If you don't want your dungeons and scenarios all to be furnished almost identically and look the same, you need to get more symbols and fill patterns than NBOS delivers with FM8 or ProFantasy delivers with CC3. Fortunately, that's no problem whatsoever. And everything's free. The biggest source of good symbols (which work fine in FM8 and Dundjinni but only after conversions in CC3) is on the still alive and very active Dundjinni forums. Just go there, pick the search option and type in the description of the type of symbol or fill you're seeking:
http://www.dundjinni.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=8
Our project group has released about 1,500 free symbols and fill patterns for FM8 that you can download under Vintyri (TM) Cartographic Collection at:
http://www.vintyri.org
Two other good sources for free fills and symbols are:
http://www.rpgmapshare.com/ and
http://greytale.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=32
Best of all, you can evaluate all of this through using it by going to:
http://www.nbos.com/download/download-trial.htm
and downloading the trial version of FM8. It does everything the full version does except save the maps that you make. It also comes with fewer symbols than the full version.
Then go to:
http://www.nbos.com/nox/index.php?action=1001&id=125
and download the official FM8 tutorial (PDF). It's excellent, and it's easy to work with it. It will give you the basics about as completely as possible. Then go to:
http://www.nbos.com/vintyri/pdftu01.zip
to locate the FM8 raster mapping tutorial by our group. It will teach you how to make maps like the one above and much more. Also download the support pack for the tutorial at:
http://www.nbos.com/vintyri/tu01sptpack01.zip.
Caution: The raster mapping tutorial deals in one chapter with downloading and using the CSUAC. Unfortunately, the CSUAC no longer is available, but the Dundjinni forums will give you all of the alternative symbols that you need. If you start working with FM8 and sekk a symbol that you can't find, let me know. Chances are good that I know where to locate it.
I went ahead and bought FM8, and so far I am enjoying it very much. I will have to do a bit more pre-planning for my campaigns to use it, but I think it will be better than the battle map option.
I created the layout of a Village in my world over the last few days. The party is has just arrived and are about to be treated to a "dusk till dawn" type scenario, mideval style. I did the whole village at a rather large scale, and plan on trimming down the portion that they are going to make their stand in. d20pro doesn't appear to like dealing with a file that large in dimensions to make into a grid. I think that I have something wrong there.
So far so good. I am liking it. As I get more comfortable this should be more and more fun.
Paul
Why don't you let us see it? Post it on the NBOS forums and/or under resources.
It's no where near the quality that I would like, but this program will take a bit of getting used to.
Best,
Paul
I'd say that you're off to a pretty good start. Improvements would take, above all, an investment of time. At the stage you're at, I'd probably do the following:
1. Add smaller roads or paths to the structures.
2. Shadow the structures.
3. Use scattered fractal polygons with various fill patterns to give some variety to the grassy areas.
However, the basic map is solid and well constructed, and the layout is logical. All in all, good work.
I have never done graphics work before in my life. I am just now finally starting to grasp the concepts of layers and how to make them work like I want. I wish that FM8 would let me move layers up and down, so if I wanted to add a water layer later I could put it where I wanted it.
The Smaller Roads thing I plan on doing to the next map I am working on, This was mainly rough going for a campaign session this weekend. I will have a bit more time between now and then for my next map.
Best,
Paul
FM8 does let you get that result. You just need to use a different method of getting there. If you put the right things together on layers, you can get the result you want by making other layers unselectable and using the Edit>Bring to Front and Edit>Send to Back options or making certain layers temporarily invisible. I've worked with FM8, CC2, CC2 Pro, CC3 and Dundjinni. I find that I can handle these layer manipulations better and faster in FM8 than in any of the other programs.
I am working on my next battle map today.
Paul
In FM8, the default sequence from top to bottom is the sequence in which one places the objects on a map, regardless of layer. The layers allow you to isolate groups of objects from one another.
One manipulates the sequence with the last four commands of the Map menu. There are various possibilities:
One can make one or more layers selectable and the others unselectable. This is an important point if one has worked with other cartographic or graphical programs. Many such programs allow only one layer to be active at any given time. In FM8, one can use the Map > Layers menu selections and then the Options command button and the list that it opens to make all layers or no layers at all selectable (active). Another alternative is to make all layers unselectable and then with the check boxes to make one or more layer(s) selectable.
After one has done that, one can select individual objects (e. g. symbols, polygons, roads, rivers, etc.) and move them to the front or back, or one can select entire layers and send them to the front or the back. This is a powerful feature of FM8 that is of considerable value to me. I can manipulate sequence in FM8 with a few quick mouse clicks, where I have to go through a series of selections or sometimes even layer or sheet changes with some other software. With almost every map I make, I come to appreciate FM8's easy and fast methods of dealing with sequencing more.
FYI: I have have licenses for and have used Dundjinni (TM), Campaign Cartographer (TM) 3, Dungeon Designer (TM) 3, City Designer (TM) 3, The GIMP and Paint.NET, to give you an idea of my base of comparison. Great! I hope you post it when you're done. One of the best teachers in cartography is in the glimpses that one gets of others' maps and ideas!