Japanese Name Generator

Comments

• AAleh

  May 2015

  I actually speak Japanese, so...
  
  First off, Japanese names follow that pattern because the Japanese language follows a specific pattern, with a much smaller set of valid syllables than English does; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology.
  
  Secondly, you can't just throw together random syllables and expect to get an actual, valid Japanese name, much as you can't do the same with letters and expect to get an actual American name. Japanese names have semantic meaning. The current Prime Minister of Japan, for instance, is Abe Shinzou -- 安倍 晋三. Without getting into his family name and its meaning, his given name (Shinzou -- Japanese names are family name first) means, roughly, "third advance". Given the conventions for number-based names in Japan, his name also makes me think that he was a third child (or a third son) -- and quick research confirms that he has at least one older brother. His predecessor was 野田 佳彦 -- Yoshihiko Noda -- whose name is both simpler to translate and roughly means "Good boy of the farmlands".
  
  That should give you some idea.
  
  Third, I downloaded your "generator" and tried it out. What the everloving heck!? "Yschoesu Reemthau"? "Toshimichi Ucasromue"? "Aduphtou Susheeme"? You can't even write those in Japanese.
  
  Seriously, seriously -- no. Just... no. You wouldn't throw together random letters to make an "American Name Generator" without even studying English word structure... so why on Earth would you even try to do that for another culture?
  
  Do some basic research. Please.
• llargando

  May 2015

  Wow, harsh. I looked at exaro's generator a month back, and found it interesting, but since I have no use for Japanese names I made no comment. Seeing this, perhaps I should have.

  I actually speak Japanese, so...

  Congratulations, here's a cookie.
  

  First off, Japanese names follow that pattern because the Japanese language follows a specific pattern, with a much smaller set of valid syllables than English does; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology.

  Here we have the one useful part of this post. If, of course, one were already a student of either Japanese or linguistics.
  

  Secondly, you can't just throw together random syllables and expect to get an actual, valid Japanese name, much as you can't do the same with letters and expect to get an actual American name. Japanese names have semantic meaning. The current Prime Minister of Japan, for instance, is Abe Shinzou -- 安倍 晋三. Without getting into his family name and its meaning, his given name (Shinzou -- Japanese names are family name first) means, roughly, "third advance". Given the conventions for number-based names in Japan, his name also makes me think that he was a third child (or a third son) -- and quick research confirms that he has at least one older brother. His predecessor was 野田 佳彦 -- Yoshihiko Noda -- whose name is both simpler to translate and roughly means "Good boy of the farmlands".
  
  That should give you some idea.
  
  Third, I downloaded your "generator" and tried it out. What the everloving heck!? "Yschoesu Reemthau"? "Toshimichi Ucasromue"? "Aduphtou Susheeme"? You can't even write those in Japanese.

  And? Exaro can speak for himself, but until then I'll work under the assumption that his intention was not to forge passports with his generator. Most likely the goal was to create Japanese-sounding names for a group consisting entirely of non-Japanese-speaking gamers. The generator he created seems plenty sufficient for that.
  

  Seriously, seriously -- no. Just... no. You wouldn't throw together random letters to make an "American Name Generator" without even studying English word structure...

  If I were a Japanese gamer, maybe I would.
  

  so why on Earth would you even try to do that for another culture?

  Possibly because, who cares? Speaking as an actual American, not just an "English speaker" I wouldn't even think to give a damn if someone tried to create an AmericanNames.ipt. If I found the code clever enough, I'd take the time to admire the pattern-matching and coding that went into it. Yes, possibly I'd laugh privately if I thought the results were ridiculous. And maybe I'd post actual specific corrections to make the results sound somewhat more plausible. One thing I wouldn't do is try to shame a clearly enthusiastic rpg'er for failing to match my lofty standards of cultural correctness.
  

  Do some basic research. Please.

  Do try to find some other forum for your self-righteousness. Please.
• AAleh

  May 2015

  largando wrote:

  Here we have the one useful part of this post. If, of course, one were already a student of either Japanese or linguistics.

  
  The article was a bit wordy. Alternately, you can take the charts here or here[/u]. And, thus, we find the one valid criticism of your comment.
  
  

  And? Exaro can speak for himself, but until then I'll work under the assumption that his intention was not to forge passports with his generator. Most likely the goal was to create Japanese-sounding names for a group consisting entirely of non-Japanese-speaking gamers. The generator he created seems plenty sufficient for that.

  No, it isn't. It really, really isn't.
  

  If I were a Japanese gamer, maybe I would.

  You'd then get crucified by the Japanese gaming community -- maybe, in the case of 2chan, quite literally. They're fond of photoshops like that.
  
  They also take their gaming quite seriously.
  

  Possibly because, who cares? Speaking as an actual American, not just an "English speaker" I wouldn't even think to give a damn if someone tried to create an AmericanNames.ipt. If I found the code clever enough, I'd take the time to admire the pattern-matching and coding that went into it. Yes, possibly I'd laugh privately if I thought the results were ridiculous. And maybe I'd post actual specific corrections to make the results sound somewhat more plausible. One thing I wouldn't do is try to shame a clearly enthusiastic rpg'er for failing to match my lofty standards of cultural correctness.

  I'm not complaining about the coding. I'm complaining that he failed to spend five to ten minutes doing Google research to learn the conventions he was naming for. Seriously -- when I tried, the first two results I got were this and this.
  
  If I *did* put something like this together, I emphatically wouldn't publish it as a "Japanese name generator". Maaaaybe I'd post it, calling it a (poor) attempt at generating Japanese-sounding names, but... no.
  
  The issue here is respect -- or, more precisely, respect for other demographics and cultures -- something that the gaming community as a whole already has a serious problem with.
  
  Was my criticism overly harsh? Maybe. It was, however, both accurate and deserved: Exaro built and published (if informally) a "Japanese name generator" without spending even five minutes researching Japanese names.
  
  At the very least, we'd likely have a generator that threw two to four kana together for each "name" and generated things that Japanese people could actually say.
• llargando

  May 2015

  And? Exaro can speak for himself, but until then I'll work under the assumption that his intention was not to forge passports with his generator. Most likely the goal was to create Japanese-sounding names for a group consisting entirely of non-Japanese-speaking gamers. The generator he created seems plenty sufficient for that.

  No, it isn't. It really, really isn't.

  Really, really? Well now I'm convinced. Are you actually saying, that for a bunch of guys who don't know Japanese, this generator wouldn't do well? Because it kind of sounds like you're using your knowledge of Japanese as the basis of your criticism.
  

  If I were a Japanese gamer, maybe I would.

  You'd then get crucified by the Japanese gaming community -- maybe, in the case of 2chan, quite literally. They're fond of photoshops like that.
  
  They also take their gaming quite seriously.

  Please do continue to justify the tone of your posts by comparing yourself to 2chan.
  

  I'm not complaining about the coding. I'm complaining that he failed to spend five to ten minutes doing Google research to learn the conventions he was naming for. Seriously -- when I tried, the first two results I got were this and this.

  Just speculating, but it seems there's a chance that Exaro didn't even realize there were such conventions -- certainly not syllabic limitations. In other words, he didn't realize there was anything to Google. Incidentally, a non-sanctimonious note pointing him to those websites would have been a useful first reply.
  

  The issue here is respect -- or, more precisely, respect for other demographics and cultures -- something that the gaming community as a whole already has a serious problem with.

  You mean like all that respect you showed Exaro? Or did you mean all the respect I found when I checked out 2chan?
  

  Was my criticism overly harsh? Maybe. It was, however, both accurate and deserved: Exaro built and published (if informally) a "Japanese name generator" without spending even five minutes researching Japanese names.
  
  At the very least, we'd likely have a generator that threw two to four kana together for each "name" and generated things that Japanese people could actually say.

  I'll stipulate that your criticism was accurate. "Deserved" is more subjective, and I don't think we're well served by allowing smug social-justice types to tell us what we "deserve". There's no reason to suspect that Exaro even knew there were conventions to be researched, or that there were limitations to what sounds Japanese people could make; but sure, let's jump down his throat anyway.
• AAleh

  May 2015

  largando wrote:

  Really, really? Well now I'm convinced. Are you actually saying, that for a bunch of guys who don't know Japanese, this generator wouldn't do well? Because it kind of sounds like you're using your knowledge of Japanese as the basis of your criticism.

  I'm saying that the results of the generator sound absolutely nothing like Japanese names except by the occasional, rare accident.
  

  Please do continue to justify the tone of your posts by comparing yourself to 2chan.

  Since you obviously missed the point, I didn't compare myself to 2chan at all: I compared the generator to 2chan's (admittedly minimal) standards and pointed out that it wouldn't pass muster even there.
  

  Just speculating, but it seems there's a chance that Exaro didn't even realize there were such conventions -- certainly not syllabic limitations. In other words, he didn't realize there was anything to Google. Incidentally, a non-sanctimonious note pointing him to those websites would have been a useful first reply.

  Not realizing that a foreign culture has naming and linguistic conventions is a massive failure of common sense and respect in and of itself (and I'm not sure which order I should place those in).
  

  You mean like all that respect you showed Exaro? Or did you mean all the respect I found when I checked out 2chan?

  2chan is, for all its vulgarity, part of the gaming community. Additionally, you seem to be missing the difference between criticism directed at an action or at conduct and personal attacks.
  

  I'll stipulate that your criticism was accurate. "Deserved" is more subjective, and I don't think we're well served by allowing smug social-justice types to tell us what we "deserve". There's no reason to suspect that Exaro even knew there were conventions to be researched, or that there were limitations to what sounds Japanese people could make; but sure, let's jump down his throat anyway.

  Every country and every language has naming conventions, limitations to sounds, and so on. Americans, for instance, generally have a lot of trouble with trill consonants (used in Spanish, among other languages) and syllables like the Japanese "tsu" (whis is technically referred to as a "voiceless alveolar sibilant affricate in phonemics). English has no nasal vowels or precise equivalent of any of the Japanese syllables typically Romanized as beginning with "r" (ra ri ru re and ro and their compounds).
  
  You are correct that "deserved" is largely subjective -- but not realizing that other cultures have their own cultural and linguistic rules is either an example of spectacular contempt or an equally spectacular lack of thought. Either deserves quite a bit of criticism.
  
  Edit: Typo corrected.
• llargando

  May 2015

  I'm saying that the results of the generator sound absolutely nothing like Japanese names except by the occasional, rare accident.

  Apparently true, to one who knows Japanese. Otherwise, irrelevant.
  

  Since you obviously missed the point, I didn't compare myself to 2chan at all

  Who criticized Exaro for creating an insufficiently accurate JapaneseNames.ipt: Aleh
  Who would (according to Aleh) "crucify" a Japanese creator of an insufficiently accurate AmericanNames.ipt: 2chan
  
  I see a a comparison!
  

  Not realizing that a foreign culture has naming and linguistic conventions is a massive failure of common sense and respect in and of itself

  You're weirdly ignoring the fact that Exaro did realize that Japanese has different conventions -- this is why he stared at the Japanese names until he saw a pattern. Which, by the way, is exactly how I've done it when I wanted to generate English-sounding names. Looks like the sole mistake here was not knowing that there was a predefined list of syllables available for Japanese names. And that of course cannot be forgiven.
  

  not realizing that other cultures have their own cultural and linguistic rules is either an example of spectacular contempt or an equally spectacular lack of thought. Either deserves quite a bit of criticism.

  Again, clearly it was realized that Japanese has linguistic rules. And obviously a fair bit of thought was put into how those rules should be applied; unfortunately, that thought did not lead to correct conclusions. If from there your assumption is that Exaro's creation of a Japanese name generator was borne of contempt of all things, I'd say you have your own problems to deal with.
  
  This should not be difficult; it's human relations, and can be absorbed by simply interacting with other humans. If you post a script here (not holding my breath) and I see a mathematical error in it, I'll probably point it out. I won't tell you how horrible you are for not doing the research or point you to websites you'll barely understand that you could have found only if you knew the right terms to search for in the first place. I certainly won't hold you in contempt of the mathematical community or any such nonsense.
  
  Because I'm not a boor.
• AAleh

  May 2015

  largando wrote:

  Apparently true, to one who knows Japanese. Otherwise, irrelevant.

  No, it's not. Again: Respect.
  

  Who criticized Exaro for creating an insufficiently accurate JapaneseNames.ipt: Aleh
  Who would (according to Aleh) "crucify" a Japanese creator of an insufficiently accurate AmericanNames.ipt: 2chan
  
  I see a a comparison!

  Yes, because you just made one. You, however, attributed the comparison to me, which is both unwarranted and intellectually dishonest.
  

  You're weirdly ignoring the fact that Exaro did realize that Japanese has different conventions -- this is why he stared at the Japanese names until he saw a pattern. Which, by the way, is exactly how I've done it when I wanted to generate English-sounding names. Looks like the sole mistake here was not knowing that there was a predefined list of syllables available for Japanese names. And that of course cannot be forgiven.

  And yet the one who suggested that he might not have realized that was you:

  There's no reason to suspect that Exaro even knew there were conventions to be researched, or that there were limitations to what sounds Japanese people could make; but sure, let's jump down his throat anyway.

  I, by contrast, simply criticized the lack of basic effort he put into researching them until you suggested that, leading me to point out that it isn't much of a defense.
  

  Again, clearly it was realized that Japanese has linguistic rules. And obviously a fair bit of thought was put into how those rules should be applied; unfortunately, that thought did not lead to correct conclusions. If from there your assumption is that Exaro's creation of a Japanese name generator was borne of contempt of all things, I'd say you have your own problems to deal with.

  It wasn't my assumption. See above.
  

  This should not be difficult; it's human relations, and can be absorbed by simply interacting with other humans. If you post a script here (not holding my breath) and I see a mathematical error in it, I'll probably point it out. I won't tell you how horrible you are for not doing the research or point you to websites you'll barely understand that you could have found only if you knew the right terms to search for in the first place. I certainly won't hold you in contempt of the mathematical community or any such nonsense.

  The links I've posted so far include the first and second Google search results for "Japanese name structure", "Japanese name convention", and "Japanese name rules". They are, incidentally, the same two links. One of them (the Wikipedia article for Japanese naming) is the third result for "Japanese name".
  
  This isn't complicated stuff.
  
  Five minutes of Googling is me being generous. Realistically, I would expect him to find the things I pointed out on his first search.
  
  Also, a mathematical error isn't analogous -- at all -- and I've technically already posted code to this forum (if not for InspirationPad).
  

  Because I'm not a boor.

  
  The irony here is quite impressive.